MS Access Forum / General 1 / December 2005
Enhancing the FAQ. Please suggest enhacements....(new topic, getting closer...)
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sasan3@gmail.com - 15 Dec 2005 10:17 GMT Every thread I start goes out on a tangent simply because some of you people are not reading my posts carefully:
Here is the phrase I am proposing for inclusion in the FAQ:
"to existing members of the group: please understand that for every expert in a field, there are many new comers who will need direction and help to get started. Please encourage new-comers by being tolerant
of all questions, even if not well-researched, or well-phrased. These qualities cannot be expected of someone lacking the necessary coordination in a given field, and without our intial help, we will only delay these new-comers' progress in getting the necessary skills to become productive memebers of this group. If you don't feel like answering a post because it is not well researched, or well constructed, please ignore the post."
Some facts that I must reiterate: 1-I am not upset about any answers or non-answers that I have received on this board. I wrote my initial post because of reading a thread ( http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.setup/browse_frm/thread/b9daa31f8f1 b4f7e?tvc=1&q=sasan3+knoppix ) with a rude reply which made me concerned about how our good community is loosing a good number of new-comers because of the bad manners of a few, who as I said previously, though good technically, should not be allowed to leave their cubicle.
2-My cross-posting is not without reason. This is a topic that relates to all newsgroups, specially technical ones. As such, any discussion about this topic MUST be posted to all original groups. I urge you to include other groups that you think can benefit from this dialogue.
3-Please read this one VERY VERY carefully. I am not trying to force anyone to provide answers. If you don't want to give answers, by all means, please move on to the next post. All I am saying is if you don't want to give answers, don't discourage new-comers by posting discouraging replies. After all, someone else on the board may find that question reasonable and provide an answer, and by that time, the new-comer may have decided to move on because of the rude initial post.
4-I must reiterate. I am not trying to force anyone to provide answers. I am just asking anyone who doesn't like a question to leave it to someone more tolerant to answer.
5-Someone said, I must be tolerant of the newsgourp culture. I disagree. If something sucks, you must stand up and correct it even if the status quo has become a comfort zone for a few.
I look forward to your enhancements of my suggested sentence. I urge people who think their respective FAQ already includes such a message, to post that section.
Thanks.
Sasan
mst - 15 Dec 2005 10:59 GMT > I look forward to your enhancements of my suggested sentence. I urge > people who think their respective FAQ already includes such a message, > to post that section. You've crossposted to newsgroups that have no relation.
These are not "boards" as you occassionally remark, they are "newsgroups".
Your suggestions for inclusion in the FAQ are selfish.
USENET does have a specialized cultural attitude - get used to it.
Now, go away.
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sasan3@gmail.com - 15 Dec 2005 11:10 GMT Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read my post?
Peter Köhlmann - 15 Dec 2005 11:38 GMT > Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read > my post? We can all agree that he indeed did read your post and identified it as total, utter rubbish
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Jean-David Beyer - 15 Dec 2005 13:58 GMT >>Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read >>my post? > > We can all agree that he indeed did read your post and identified it as > total, utter rubbish I think it interesting that the two answers to the original post so far, whatever the original post's merits may have been, are examples of what the original poster was talking about.
Clearly, some posters here disagree with the original poster. Unless their sense of humor, and they are just illustrating by irony the original poster's point, differs greatly from mine.
I tend to agree with the O.P. that the tone of this newsgroup (and this one is by no means the worst) could use a lift in some cases. I do not know if saying something to that effect in the FAQ would help much. For one thing, where do you put the most frequently useful replies: READ THE FAQ? Whould a newbie read the FAQ. He may already be in a panic, and the FAQ only comes out once a week or so, and it takes several posts (6, IIRC: you can see the last time I bothered to look at it) to get it all in there.
Perhaps many of those to whom the O.P. objects have contributed to the FAQ. I would not know. It seems to me that many (but by no means all) of the most knowledgeable get annoyed at seeing the same questions year after year. Especially questions that are answered in the FAQ. This can get on their nerves. I used to recommend DejaNews for answers, but it (or, rather, Google) has gotten so many posts in there that it is like doing any other Google search: you either get nothing, or 14 million drops and after a page or two of those, I give up. Perhaps others do too.
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Terry Kreft - 15 Dec 2005 14:34 GMT You evidently haven't read all the different threads (I think this is the fourth) started by the troll sasan. If you had you would understand that peoples exaperation with his refusal to acknowledge answers contrary to his viewpoint as anything other than vindications of his viewpoint is growing.
 Signature Terry Kreft
>>>Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read >>>my post? [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > page > or two of those, I give up. Perhaps others do too. David W. Fenton - 15 Dec 2005 20:31 GMT > You evidently haven't read all the different threads (I think this > is the fourth) started by the troll sasan. If you had you would > understand that peoples exaperation with his refusal to > acknowledge answers contrary to his viewpoint as anything other > than vindications of his viewpoint is growing. Seems to me that the mere act of crossposting a thread about a newsgroup FAQ is itself evidence of one or more of these:
1. complete insanity
2. massive stupidity
3. trolldom
 Signature David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/ usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Terry Kreft - 16 Dec 2005 01:38 GMT Correct Correct and Correct again.
Heh!
On this thread I'm actually tending to the all three theory.
 Signature Terry Kreft
<SNIP>
> Seems to me that the mere act of crossposting a thread about a > newsgroup FAQ is itself evidence of one or more of these: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > 3. trolldom Timothy Murphy - 15 Dec 2005 14:34 GMT >> Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read >> my post? > > We can all agree that he indeed did read your post and identified it as > total, utter rubbish Why? I read the post, and it did not strike me as "rubbish". It was slightly self-centered, but that is a different matter.
As far as I could see, the post more or less just said, "Please be nice to newbies, and don't discourage them". Did you read something else into it?
 Signature Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
Mark South - 15 Dec 2005 18:42 GMT >> Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read >> my post? > > We can all agree that he indeed did read your post and identified it as > total, utter rubbish Why would identifying the troll post as total utter rubbish require reading it? I just trash them all without reading them. Works for me.
I also auto-plonk anyone who posts into this thread. Oh, wait! NO!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......!!!!
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Terry Kreft - 15 Dec 2005 12:27 GMT No, I think we all agree you are an inconsiderate self-centred idiot who is unable to read other peoples posts and understand them.
BTW Nice trolling up to now.
 Signature Terry Kreft
> Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read > my post? Robert Melson - 15 Dec 2005 16:35 GMT > No, I think we all agree you are an inconsiderate self-centred idiot who is > unable to read other peoples posts and understand them. > > BTW Nice trolling up to now. Uh, gang? Would you please remove comp.mail.sendmail from this heavily cross- posted discussion. Takes up bandwidth better used for other, more exciting things, like paint-drying contests or grass-growing observations. This, and the "...Self-Appointed..." thread have long since ceased to be amusing or appropriate to c.m.s.
Thanx.
Randy Harris - 15 Dec 2005 17:07 GMT This is the third or fourth thread on this topic started by this troll. He has no interest in dialog, merely expressing his opinions in threads crossposted to unrelated newsgroups.
IMO - The best solution is to simply killfile sasan3@gmail.com. If, however, you wish to attempt to engage him in dialog please uncrosspost before doing so.
My apologies for propagating this crosspost, I won't do it again.
 Signature Randy Harris tech at promail dot com
sasan3@gmail.com - 16 Dec 2005 01:21 GMT DO YOU PEOPLE READ?
I made the following comment: "2-My cross-posting is not without reason. This is a topic that relates to all newsgroups, specially technical ones. As such, any discussion about this topic MUST be posted to all original groups. I urge you to include other groups that you think can benefit from this dialogue. "
If you disagree with my point, comment to it! The loudmouth minority keeps repeating that this post if off-topic without giving a single reason as to why, or responding to my comment above. Meanwhile, the silent majority is not getting the real advantage that carrying this dialogue can provide! Chancing the risk of going off-topic, I must say that this behavior reminds me of Bush's campaign where he consistently called Kerry a flip-flopper without really justifying his comments.
Stay to the point people!!!!! Why is it so hard for you to carry on a substantive dialogue?!!!!!!
Terry Kreft - 16 Dec 2005 01:40 GMT Classic troll move, now he's trying to get us to disseminate this garbage to even more groups.
Oh well I've had enough <PLONK>
 Signature Terry Kreft
> DO YOU PEOPLE READ? > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Stay to the point people!!!!! Why is it so hard for you to carry on a > substantive dialogue?!!!!!! Chuck F. - 16 Dec 2005 02:45 GMT > DO YOU PEOPLE READ? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I urge you to include other groups that you think can benefit from > this dialogue. " ... snip ...
--- KER-PLONK ---
 Signature A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Lyle Fairfield - 16 Dec 2005 03:11 GMT > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? I'm confused by this and seldom notice where I am posting. My question is:
Which is better?
a) Genius at the top
b) Nonsense at the bottom
just an a) or a b) will be sufficient answer.
Mike Scott - 16 Dec 2005 08:39 GMT >>A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. >>Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > just an a) or a b) will be sufficient answer. (a).
But if you're after a simple automatic rule, better still is perhaps (c) genius at the bottom, if only because it doesn't rile so many so much. For my own part, I think either top or bottom can be legitimate depending on context, and the poster needs to /think/ about what they're doing and decide what's best to do in the way of snipping and positioning of reply; I suspect a lot don't.
 Signature Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies. Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk)
Mike Preston - 16 Dec 2005 09:12 GMT Do you want your answer here?
mike
>> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. >> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >just an a) or a b) will be sufficient answer. Or here?
mike
Bri - 16 Dec 2005 17:23 GMT Don't you get it? Not one responder has agreed with you! You act like a bully and then get hostile when someone takes you to task.
I don't know any thing about the other groups you have cross posted to, but CDMA does have a FAQ that covers the topic you are claiming is not covered. Go to http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm and READ IT. All of it! Particularly the sections; 'Asking questions the right way' and 'Answering questions the right way'. So, please follow your own advice and READ the FAQ before you state that it is missing something. Then if you have something meaningful to submit, do it POLITELY. If you hadn't been so belligerent in your original post you would not have been reciprocated in the hostility.
Now, apologize to CDMA for your accusations and try to behave like you have shouted at everyone else to behave.
 Signature Bri
Crossposting removed
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