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MS Access Forum / General 1 / December 2005

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Enhancing the FAQ. Please suggest enhacements....(new topic, getting closer...)

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sasan3@gmail.com - 15 Dec 2005 10:17 GMT
Every thread I start goes out on a tangent simply because some of you
people are not reading my posts carefully:

Here is the phrase I am proposing for inclusion in the FAQ:

"to existing members of the group: please understand that for every
expert in a field, there are many new comers who will need direction
and help to get started. Please encourage new-comers by being tolerant

of all questions, even if not well-researched, or well-phrased. These
qualities cannot be expected of someone lacking the necessary
coordination in a given field, and without our intial help, we will
only delay these new-comers' progress in getting the necessary skills
to become productive memebers of this group. If you don't feel like
answering a post because it is not well researched, or well
constructed, please ignore the post."

Some facts that I must reiterate:
1-I am not upset about any answers or non-answers that I have received
on this board. I wrote my initial post because of reading a thread (
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.setup/browse_frm/thread/b9daa31f8f1
b4f7e?tvc=1&q=sasan3+knoppix

) with a rude reply which made me concerned about how our good
community is loosing a good number of new-comers because of the bad
manners of a few, who as I said previously, though good technically,
should not be allowed to leave their cubicle.

2-My cross-posting is not without reason. This is a topic that relates
to all newsgroups, specially technical ones. As such, any discussion
about this topic MUST be posted to all original groups. I urge you to
include other groups that you think can benefit from this dialogue.

3-Please read this one VERY VERY carefully. I am not trying to force
anyone to provide answers. If you don't want to give answers, by all
means, please move on to the next post. All I am saying is if you don't
want to give answers, don't discourage new-comers by posting
discouraging replies. After all, someone else on the board may find
that question reasonable and provide an answer, and by that time, the
new-comer may have decided to move on because of the rude initial post.

4-I must reiterate. I am not trying to force anyone to provide answers.
I am just asking anyone who doesn't like a question to leave it to
someone more tolerant to answer.

5-Someone said, I must be tolerant of the newsgourp culture. I
disagree. If something sucks, you must stand up and correct it even if
the status quo has become a comfort zone for a few.

I look forward to your enhancements of my suggested sentence. I urge
people who think their respective FAQ already includes such a message,
to post that section.

Thanks.

Sasan
mst - 15 Dec 2005 10:59 GMT
> I look forward to your enhancements of my suggested sentence. I urge
> people who think their respective FAQ already includes such a message,
> to post that section.

You've crossposted to newsgroups that have no relation.

These are not "boards" as you occassionally remark, they
are "newsgroups".

Your suggestions for inclusion in the FAQ are selfish.

USENET does have a specialized cultural attitude - get used to it.

Now, go away.

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sasan3@gmail.com - 15 Dec 2005 11:10 GMT
Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read
my post?
Peter Köhlmann - 15 Dec 2005 11:38 GMT
> Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read
> my post?

We can all agree that he indeed did read your post and identified it as
total, utter rubbish
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Jean-David Beyer - 15 Dec 2005 13:58 GMT
>>Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read
>>my post?
>
> We can all agree that he indeed did read your post and identified it as
> total, utter rubbish

I think it interesting that the two answers to the original post so far,
whatever the original post's merits may have been, are examples of what the
original poster was talking about.

Clearly, some posters here disagree with the original poster. Unless their
sense of humor, and they are just illustrating by irony the original
poster's point, differs greatly from mine.

I tend to agree with the O.P. that the tone of this newsgroup (and this one
is by no means the worst) could use a lift in some cases. I do not know if
saying something to that effect in the FAQ would help much. For one thing,
where do you put the most frequently useful replies: READ THE FAQ? Whould a
newbie read the FAQ. He may already be in a panic, and the FAQ only comes
out once a week or so, and it takes several posts (6, IIRC: you can see the
last time I bothered to look at it) to get it all in there.

Perhaps many of those to whom the O.P. objects have contributed to the FAQ.
I would not know. It seems to me that many (but by no means all) of the most
knowledgeable get annoyed at seeing the same questions year after year.
Especially questions that are answered in the FAQ. This can get on their
nerves. I used to recommend DejaNews for answers, but it (or, rather,
Google) has gotten so many posts in there that it is like doing any other
Google search: you either get nothing, or 14 million drops and after a page
or two of those, I give up. Perhaps others do too.

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Terry Kreft - 15 Dec 2005 14:34 GMT
You evidently haven't read all the different threads (I think this is the
fourth) started by the troll sasan.  If you had you would understand that
peoples exaperation with his refusal to acknowledge answers contrary to his
viewpoint as anything other than vindications of his viewpoint is growing.

Signature

Terry Kreft

>>>Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read
>>>my post?
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> page
> or two of those, I give up. Perhaps others do too.
David W. Fenton - 15 Dec 2005 20:31 GMT
> You evidently haven't read all the different threads (I think this
> is the fourth) started by the troll sasan.  If you had you would
> understand that peoples exaperation with his refusal to
> acknowledge answers contrary to his viewpoint as anything other
> than vindications of his viewpoint is growing.

Seems to me that the mere act of crossposting a thread about a
newsgroup FAQ is itself evidence of one or more of these:

1. complete insanity

2. massive stupidity

3. trolldom

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Terry Kreft - 16 Dec 2005 01:38 GMT
Correct
Correct
and Correct again.

Heh!

On this thread I'm actually tending to the all three theory.

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Terry Kreft

<SNIP>

> Seems to me that the mere act of crossposting a thread about a
> newsgroup FAQ is itself evidence of one or more of these:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> 3. trolldom
Timothy Murphy - 15 Dec 2005 14:34 GMT
>> Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read
>> my post?
>
> We can all agree that he indeed did read your post and identified it as
> total, utter rubbish

Why?
I read the post, and it did not strike me as "rubbish".
It was slightly self-centered, but that is a different matter.

As far as I could see, the post more or less just said,
"Please be nice to newbies, and don't discourage them".
Did you read something else into it?

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s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Mark South - 15 Dec 2005 18:42 GMT
>> Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read
>> my post?
>
> We can all agree that he indeed did read your post and identified it as
> total, utter rubbish

Why would identifying the troll post as total utter rubbish require
reading it?  I just trash them all without reading them.  Works for me.

I also auto-plonk anyone who posts into this thread.  Oh, wait!  NO!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......!!!!
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Terry Kreft - 15 Dec 2005 12:27 GMT
No, I think we all agree you are an inconsiderate self-centred idiot who is
unable to read other peoples posts and understand them.

BTW Nice trolling up to now.
Signature

Terry Kreft

> Do we all agree that MST's reply clearly indicates that he did not read
> my post?
Robert Melson - 15 Dec 2005 16:35 GMT
> No, I think we all agree you are an inconsiderate self-centred idiot who is
> unable to read other peoples posts and understand them.
>
> BTW Nice trolling up to now.

Uh, gang?  Would you please remove comp.mail.sendmail from this heavily cross-
posted discussion.  Takes up bandwidth better used for other, more exciting
things, like paint-drying contests or grass-growing observations.  This, and
the "...Self-Appointed..." thread have long since ceased to be amusing or
appropriate to c.m.s.

Thanx.
Randy Harris - 15 Dec 2005 17:07 GMT
This is the third or fourth thread on this topic started by this troll. He
has no interest in dialog, merely expressing his opinions in threads
crossposted to unrelated newsgroups.

IMO - The best solution is to simply killfile sasan3@gmail.com.  If,
however, you wish to attempt to engage him in dialog please uncrosspost
before doing so.

My apologies for propagating this crosspost, I won't do it again.

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Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com

sasan3@gmail.com - 16 Dec 2005 01:21 GMT
DO YOU PEOPLE READ?

I made the following comment:
"2-My cross-posting is not without reason. This is a topic that relates
to all newsgroups, specially technical ones. As such, any discussion
about this topic MUST be posted to all original groups. I urge you to
include other groups that you think can benefit from this dialogue. "

If you disagree with my point, comment to it! The loudmouth minority
keeps repeating that this post if off-topic without giving a single
reason as to why, or responding to my comment above. Meanwhile, the
silent majority is not getting the real advantage that carrying this
dialogue can provide!
Chancing the risk of going off-topic, I must say that this behavior
reminds me of Bush's campaign where he consistently called Kerry a
flip-flopper without really justifying his comments.

Stay to the point people!!!!! Why is it so hard for you to carry on a
substantive dialogue?!!!!!!
Terry Kreft - 16 Dec 2005 01:40 GMT
Classic troll move, now he's trying to get us to disseminate this garbage to
even more groups.

Oh well I've had enough <PLONK>

Signature

Terry Kreft

> DO YOU PEOPLE READ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Stay to the point people!!!!! Why is it so hard for you to carry on a
> substantive dialogue?!!!!!!
Chuck F. - 16 Dec 2005 02:45 GMT
> DO YOU PEOPLE READ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I urge you to include other groups that you think can benefit from
> this dialogue. "
... snip ...

   --- KER-PLONK ---

Signature

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Lyle Fairfield - 16 Dec 2005 03:11 GMT
> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

I'm confused by this and seldom notice where I am posting. My question
is:

Which is better?

a) Genius at the top

b) Nonsense at the bottom

just an a) or a b) will be sufficient answer.
Mike Scott - 16 Dec 2005 08:39 GMT
>>A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
>>Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> just an a) or a b) will be sufficient answer.

(a).

But if you're after a simple automatic rule, better still is perhaps (c)
genius at the bottom, if only because it doesn't rile so many so much.
For my own part, I think either top or bottom can be legitimate
depending on context, and the poster needs to /think/ about what they're
doing and decide what's best to do in the way of snipping and
positioning of reply; I suspect a lot don't.

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Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
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Mike Preston - 16 Dec 2005 09:12 GMT
Do you want your answer here?

mike

>> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
>> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>just an a) or a b) will be sufficient answer.

Or here?

mike
Bri - 16 Dec 2005 17:23 GMT
Don't you get it? Not one responder has agreed with you! You act like a
bully and then get hostile when someone takes you to task.

I don't know any thing about the other groups you have cross posted to,
but CDMA does have a FAQ that covers the topic you are claiming is not
covered. Go to http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm and READ IT.
All of it! Particularly the sections; 'Asking questions the right way'
and 'Answering questions the right way'. So, please follow your own
advice and READ the FAQ before you state that it is missing something.
Then if you have something meaningful to submit, do it POLITELY. If you
hadn't been so belligerent in your original post you would not have been
reciprocated in the hostility.

Now, apologize to CDMA for your accusations and try to behave like you
have shouted at everyone else to behave.

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Bri

Crossposting removed

 
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