 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
MS Access Forum / General 2 / January 2008Question on KB Article 924741 for Access 2007
I'm just wondering why this wasn't fixed in SP1. it seems like an annoyance rather then a bug. Tony Basically, the real answer lies in the fact that if you even CARE what the autonumber is then you aren't using it correctly. It should only really be used to generate a UNIQUE number, which is what it only truly guarantees. It should never be used for something with meaning UNLESS you can live with the gaps, don't need it to be incremented by one each time because it can (in certain uses) jump around and even include negative numbers. If you need a consecutive incrementing number, create your own using DMax.  SignatureBob Larson Access World Forums Super Moderator Utter Access VIP Tutorials at http://www.btabdevelopment.com If my post was helpful to you, please rate the post. __________________________________ > I'm just wondering why this wasn't fixed in SP1. it seems like an > annoyance rather then a bug. > > Tony Feel better now? When you put a feature somewhere, you put it right. The fact that an user won't care or shouldn't care about the sequencing of autogenerated numbers change nothing to the fact that this feature has been built for newbies and as such, it must behave the way any user and in particular a newbie is expecting it to behave. Clearly, its actual behavior is pretty annoying to the point of beeing recognised as a problem and as such, it should have been corrected in SP1. The capability of adding a new field to a table in datasheet view is a feature and like any other feature, it should be done right. If it's not, then it should be corrected in order to be right. SignatureSylvain Lafontaine, ing. MVP - Technologies Virtual-PC E-mail: sylvain aei ca (fill the blanks, no spam please) > Basically, the real answer lies in the fact that if you even CARE what the > autonumber is then you aren't using it correctly. It should only really [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> Tony Well, when your just learning access for your job, you might HAVE QUESTIONS like that. I'm just hitting chapter 2 in one of MS training books when it mentions this bug. So, before blasting someone for using something wrong, find out the situation first, OK? >Basically, the real answer lies in the fact that if you even CARE what the >autonumber is then you aren't using it correctly. It should only really be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >If you need a consecutive incrementing number, create your own using DMax. just because it says it in the book doesn't mean they might not have it wrong. And, I was not attempting to BLAST anyone. I was trying to explain, with furvor, that which most people do not know or understand that an autonumber is not good for human consumption. SignatureBob Larson Access World Forums Super Moderator Utter Access VIP Tutorials at http://www.btabdevelopment.com If my post was helpful to you, please rate the post. __________________________________ > Well, when your just learning access for your job, you might HAVE > QUESTIONS like that. I'm just hitting chapter 2 in one of MS training [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > >If you need a consecutive incrementing number, create your own using DMax. >If you need a consecutive incrementing number, create your own using DMax. Dmax has it's limitations as well. If there is any time delay between doing the Dmax and saving the record then someone else could use the same ID. Tony SignatureTony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ Missing from the workarounds in that article is: if you are going to "design" a table in datasheet view, just create your field names, don't enter data. SignatureHTH, George > I'm just wondering why this wasn't fixed in SP1. it seems like an > annoyance rather then a bug. > > Tony It's kind of difficult to 'fix' since it's a fundamental characteristic of Access. If there are enough complaints, the work around will have to be to build something completely separate from Access, and then build something to copy the table from the separate thing into Access. Or else to get rid of Access and sell something different with the same name. You might think that they could just modify the Autonumber behaviour somehow, but you would be wrong. They tried to modify the Autonumber behaviour for Access 2000, and after repeated attempts the change is still broken, 8 years later. KB924741 is not something they can just patch up. (david) > I'm just wondering why this wasn't fixed in SP1. it seems like an > annoyance rather then a bug. > > Tony >You might think that they could just modify the Autonumber >behaviour somehow, but you would be wrong. They tried to >modify the Autonumber behaviour for Access 2000, and after >repeated attempts the change is still broken, 8 years later. >KB924741 is not something they can just patch up. The problem in KB924741 is new to Access 2007. Tony SignatureTony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ > The problem in KB924741 is new to Access 2007. The feature is new in Access 2007, but it just exposes a fundamental characteristic of Access Autonumbers: if you request a new record, you increment the autonumber count. I don't see a quick fix for that behaviour: they will need to re-write the wizard. (david) >>You might think that they could just modify the Autonumber >>behaviour somehow, but you would be wrong. They tried to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Tony > a fundamental characteristic of Access Autonumbers: if you > request a new record, you increment the autonumber count. Yes, but KB924741 isn't requesting a new record. If you are *creating* a table in *datasheet* view and *add data* to 2 fields to the 1st record, the autonumber for the 2nd record will be 3, not 2. If you *add data* to 4 fields in the fist record, the autonumber for the 2nd record will be 5. etc, etc. None of which changes anything about the general discussions of autonumbers, but the behaviour is new. SignatureHTH, George >> The problem in KB924741 is new to Access 2007. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> Tony You aren't requesting a new record, but the wizard is. I don't see a quick fix for that behaviour: they will need to re-write the wizard to use a temporary structure instead of an Access table. (david) >> a fundamental characteristic of Access Autonumbers: if you >> request a new record, you increment the autonumber count. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>> >>> Tony >You aren't requesting a new record, > >but the wizard is. No the wizard is not requesting a new record for each new field you create. Or rather it is but it certainly shouldn't be. BTW have you actually tried this to see what behavior we're talking about? >I don't see a quick fix for that behaviour: they will need to >re-write the wizard to use a temporary structure instead of >an Access table. To me it's just a bug in the wizard code. Tony SignatureTony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ > BTW have you actually tried this to see what behavior we're > talking about? You add a field to the table and the autonumber increments. What else is there to see? > create. Or rather it is but it certainly shouldn't be. > To me it's just a bug in the wizard code. But that's what always happens when you refresh the data into an empty record. There's not a 'line of code' that says 'increment the autonumber field'. It's not a coding error: it's an early design decision to use an Access-like form tied to an Access table. To fix it you have to throw out the design of the wizard, or do other unpalatible things like saving the data early, which looses the edit-undo, and means the wizard behaviour would still be unlike that expected in Access. Or perhaps add code to automatically re-set the autonumber to 1 after every design change? That would be a brave decision, not one I would take lightly. Or use an unbound form and store the input data elsewhere? That's where I came in. (david) >>You aren't requesting a new record, >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Tony >> BTW have you actually tried this to see what behavior we're >> talking about? > >You add a field to the table and the autonumber increments. >What else is there to see? Ok, good. >> create. Or rather it is but it certainly shouldn't be. > >> To me it's just a bug in the wizard code. > >But that's what always happens when you refresh the data into >an empty record. Now you've got me confused. Can you explain how to do this in a datasheet view? And in, say, A2003? Tony SignatureTony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ >The feature is new in Access 2007, but it just exposes a >fundamental characteristic of Access Autonumbers: if you >request a new record, you increment the autonumber count. Not quite. You have to see it yourself to understand what is going on. Hmm, if you don't have A2007 I could do a Camtasia movie. Tony SignatureTony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.