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MS Access Forum / Multiuser / Networking / March 2006

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MSACCESS.exe has generated errors

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MC - 14 Mar 2006 22:25 GMT
This annoying error message from MS Access "MSACCESS.exe has generated
errors and will be closed by Windows. ... "
Keeps happening for most versions of MS Access like 95, 97, 2000, that I am
aware of.
On the web, I see that I am not the only one who have problem, sound like
there is a huge variable as a reason to this error.
As an IT staff, we have tried everything possibly we can to solve the
problem, but no success

Our ERP system front end design is Access, and back end is SQL 7 using ODBC
with a lot of table links...(I know it sounds stupid)
And randomly this error shows up, and closes the application.
Our best solution appears to be to change the ERP application, but this will
be a long proccess.
Anyone who have better idea, you are welcome to suggest
(Except the following ideas which we have tried: network issue,
computer/network card issue, Anti-virus interferenace, client, and server
named pipes priority, memory, speed...)
Thanks
MC
Larry Linson - 14 Mar 2006 23:30 GMT
No, that doesn't sound stupid at all. Why do you think it does?

Does each of your users have his/her own copy of the Access client
application? Multiple users logged in to the same front end or monolithic
Access application significantly increases the problability of corruption,
and could cause the problem you are experiencing.

I'd differ, if your users are satisified (except for these crashes) with the
application. I think your best solution is to identify and correct the
problem you are experiencing. It is not "normal" to experience frequent
occurrences of that error message -- which simply means that an error has
occurred for which Access cannot identify the cause.

If I were you, I'd try to zero in on system and software issues rather than
the (mostly hardware) issues that you list. Two good sources of information
are MVP Tony Toew's site, at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm and MVP
Jeff Conrad's site, at
http://home.bendbroadband.com/conradsystems/accessjunkie.html

First thing I would do is to get rid of every copy of Access 95 in use in
your organization -- that was such a stinker they never even bothered to
release a Service Pack/Release for it. The next thing I would do is to
assure that every copy of version of Access in use has every Service
Release, Service Pack, and patch applied. Access 2000 was not far behind
Access 95 in the stinker category without the Service Packs, but with all
three SPs and patches, it seems relatively stable.

Good luck.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

> This annoying error message from MS Access "MSACCESS.exe has generated
> errors and will be closed by Windows. ... "
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Thanks
> MC
MC - 15 Mar 2006 00:26 GMT
Why?  Because using ODBC connection with table links are the last solution a
developper should choose to design an application.
Stand-alone, single user, may be a few is fine. ODBC connection would be
slow, opening forms, and executing functions...
ERP application is an enterprise application that handles, heavy transaction
which basically waste of time of our people.
People who learn that we have ERP, front end Access, just laugh. MS Access
is not made for that.
That is why Microsoft have made, Programming tools like Visual Basic, Visual
C++,  now .NET to accomplis such enterprise applications.

Yes they do have their own copy, however, application is designed to talk to
other Access libraries on the server end which is also shared.
I have 2 Programmers working with me more then 6 years exp., could not
identify root cause

Note: I  do not have Access 95, or 97.  I gave these as an example to say,
MS Access have these problems from the day 1
still a problem. I would think that new MS Access would be designed better
to handle/track such issues

We use Access 2000, and ERP is designed not to work with any other version
I can't even change windows SP1 to SP4
Do you now agree why it was stupid to design such enterprise application
using VBA code and Access?

MC

> No, that doesn't sound stupid at all. Why do you think it does?
>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> > Thanks
> > MC
Tony Toews - 15 Mar 2006 05:04 GMT
>Yes they do have their own copy, however, application is designed to talk to
>other Access libraries on the server end which is also shared.

Sharing other Access libraries on the server  could be the cause.

Tony
Signature

Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
  Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
  Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

Tony Toews - 15 Mar 2006 05:08 GMT
>ERP application is an enterprise application that handles, heavy transaction
>which basically waste of time of our people.
>People who learn that we have ERP, front end Access, just laugh. MS Access
>is not made for that.
>That is why Microsoft have made, Programming tools like Visual Basic, Visual
>C++,  now .NET to accomplis such enterprise applications.

Rubbish.   Access is a fine tool.  I know of one person who has over
ten thousand people using an Access app against a SQL Server backend.

Those folks who are laughing think you have to throw lots of fancy,
expensive tools and consultants to get a so called enterprise solution
working.   Which is completely wrong.   Although to be fair this is
what many folks within Microsoft are also saying.

Sure there are situations where the latest  Net solution is
appropriate.   There is one person who states that his company
multiplies .Net quotes by a factor of six over the same app in Access.

Tony
Signature

Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
  Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
  Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

MC - 15 Mar 2006 18:21 GMT
My friend, you don't need to sell me Access,
I know how access works from access 95 and before. Access would be best for
smaller environments. Microsoft and a lot Microsoft developpers would
acknowlede that, it is fastest developing tool but yet, slowest if you use
ODBC connection to SQL, and let your access get the data and manipulate.

MC

> >ERP application is an enterprise application that handles, heavy transaction
> >which basically waste of time of our people.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>    Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
> http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Piri - 16 Mar 2006 09:39 GMT
Hmmmmm.
Not sure what you mean by "smaller" environments. Our business has been
using Access 97 for years, and we have no intention of changing. It has
proved to be as reliable and probably more so than anything else in our
league. New employees often comment on the user friendliness and
stability compared to the "enterprise" stuff they had been using
elsewhere. Very few crashes (generally less than two or three a year)
and every time we are the problem, not the program. The rub? We run 60
concurrent (and busy) users all sharing the SAME front end. We also run
two branch offices via a VPN using Terminal Services hooked into the
same data source (a mix of Access and SQL). Each branch user group
shares the same front end on the Terminal Server. Minnows in the grand
scheme of things I guess.  We are not besotted with speed - what is the
difference  - one blink? or two?

For the crunching we use a mix of temporary databases / tables and SQL.
We regularly maintain the front ends and the data - regular compacts and
updates, including the workstations. We have the luxury I guess of
having the same two people as the IT / development team all this time.
For us Access is a permanent work-in-progress, part of the furniture
really. It's great being able to respond to the business's changing
needs, sometimes overnight. Great home-made flexibility. Try getting
that out of some snooty highbrow prima donna enterprise developer from
the other side of town - if you can get him off his mobile phone! :)

Methinks the problems often attributed to the product should be
attributed to the people using it.

To suggest Microsoft would "acknowledge" your argument goes without
saying - why would they promote something as useful and economic as
Access runtime when they can sting you half your profit for a level of
application you don't really need? We have had the gee-wizz enterprise
types look into our business - but they never really understand it.

BTW - this newsgroup has been a source of gratefully accepted advice for
me, freely given by people with no axes to grind.

Piri

PS  if you know Access, you will be able to work through your problems.
There's plenty of willing help here for you if you ask, nicely.

> My friend, you don't need to sell me Access,
> I know how access works from access 95 and before. Access would be best for
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>>   Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
>>http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Brendan Reynolds - 16 Mar 2006 12:59 GMT
Isn't this all becoming rather pointless? I mean, obviously we don't agree
with you, otherwise we would not be using Access, and therefore would not be
hanging out in this newsgroup.

Could we try to get back to something a little more practical? Presumably,
you came here looking for help. As you have been advised, the first step in
resolving your problems is to install the service releases and patches. If
your ERP vendor is preventing you from doing that, then I'm afraid I'm not
sure what anyone here can do for you. As far as I can see, the only courses
of action open to you are to either put pressure on your vendor to support
the service releases, or find another vendor. I'm not sure what else we can
tell you?

Signature

Brendan Reynolds
Access MVP

> My friend, you don't need to sell me Access,
> I know how access works from access 95 and before. Access would be best
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>>    Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
>> http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Larry Linson - 16 Mar 2006 08:36 GMT
No, I do not, after reading your rant, agree that it was stupid to implement
your ERP system with an Access client. You have swallowed a lot of
propaganda, I fear. But this is not the venue to spread that kind of
propaganda with no fear of response.

I have used Access (and Microsoft VB) as a development tool since 1993,
after a long career in mainframes and minicomputers. Most of the paying work
I've done with Access has been with Access as a client, in versions from 2.0
to the current 2003, to various ODBC-compliant server databases from
Microsoft, Sybase, and Informix. I've also used Access 2000 with an ADP
client to Microsoft SQL Server. None, not one, of those applications
experienced the kind of errors you describe with the frequency you describe.

As each user should have their own copy of the front end and all libraries,
and will be individually connected to the server, there is no user audience
limitation, except the number of connections supported by the server. I have
personally worked on Access-client-to-server applications with user
audiences in the low hundreds and have observed successful implementations
with even larger user audiences. How many concurrent users do you have?

For your information, Microsoft VB applications have to connect to the
server in exactly the same manner as Access clients, using either ODBC to
connect to the tables and DAO code, or ADO and ADODB -- thus have no
inherent advantage. In fact, since they rely more on user-written code,
which will certainly not have been as well-tested as the built-in
functionality of Access, they are likely to be less reliable.

If you have a web-based application, or a distributed enterprise-level
application, then it is possible that you might gain by using the new
ASP.NET capabilities. ADO.NET, built on a different base and object model
from the "classic ADO" available in Access, is said to be pretty good.

But, for the client-server application you describe, there's nothing at all
wrong with Access as a client, and a reliable ODBC-compliant server. In
fact, there is strong sentiment among many of those who really know database
work (rather than seizing on rumors to try to explain their own problems)
that Access is the best client for client-server database applications. For
client-server work, moving to DotNet is certainly likely to increase your
requirements for hardware capacilty and memory.

If your environment does not provide for regular updating of installed
software, then you have far greater issues than "Access client software".
If your Access 2000 does not have all the Service Packs applied, then you
are just asking for trouble. Why do you bother with all those tests and
trials if you are not even able to keep your software up-to-date? No matter
how much you test things that are working, that is not going to move the
problems from where they exist to those areas.

I am sure you are aware that Access 2000 is now "out of service" with
Microsoft. If I were going to use an "out of service" product, I'd far
prefer Access 97 with both Service Releases and the few minor patches that
followed SR2.

BTW, Tony is correct that those users sharing the libraries on the server is
one potential cause -- that's no different than having multiple users logged
in to the same client or monlithic database.

Write again when you have provided each user with his/her own copy of the
now-shared libraries and when you are up-to-date with Service Releases and
Service Packs, and perhaps you'll be at a point where someone can offer
other useful suggestions.  With the rapidity of developments in the computer
world, what you are asking is something like, "My 1946 Cadillac has never
been maintained, smokes a lot, and won't go very fast -- what can I do to
make it better?" And then reporting that "No, I can't get regular oil
changes, I can't get the engine rebuilt, and I can't get the other broken
parts replaced, so it must be that 1946 Cadillacs were just bad cars and it
was stupid of the company to buy one back in 1946."

In neither case does "blaming the tool" give you the remotest chance of
correcting the problem.

 Larry Linson
 Microsoft Access MVP

> Why?  Because using ODBC connection with table links are the last solution
> a
[quoted text clipped - 91 lines]
>> > Thanks
>> > MC
MC - 16 Mar 2006 23:49 GMT
We agree to disagree.
First of all, I never thought my answer would be considered as "rant".
Where did you get the "propaganda" idea?
I am an access fan myself, but I would not design for huge application like
ERP (I don't know, if you know what ERP means)
Patch untill when?, where does it stop. This problem was there 8-9 years
ago,and still there.
Luck you, never have problem.
MC

arry Linson" <bouncer@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:#yPthxMSGHA.5552@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> No, I do not, after reading your rant, agree that it was stupid to implement
> your ERP system with an Access client. You have swallowed a lot of
[quoted text clipped - 165 lines]
> >> > Thanks
> >> > MC
Tony Toews - 17 Mar 2006 05:50 GMT
>Patch untill when?, where does it stop. This problem was there 8-9 years
>ago,and still there.

But we don't know that the problem is still there.  Installing SP3 may
solve the Access crashing problem.  

Tony
Signature

Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
  Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
  Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

Larry Linson - 17 Mar 2006 06:07 GMT
> Where did you get the "propaganda" idea?

I got the idea, partly, from your making an unsubstantiated statement about
how bad an idea it is to link tables via ODBC, when not only I, but many
here have implemented stable, solid, reliable applications using exactly
that. I got the idea from your unsubstantiated, and erroneous, claim that it
would be better implemented in VB or some flavor of C, when the
implementation of data access would be essentially identical (except that
data binding is handled differently in VB and doesn't work as smoothly as
Access).

> I am an access fan myself, but I would not design
> for huge application like ERP (I don't know, if you
> know what ERP means)

You certainly do not _read_ as though you are an Access fan. I like to think
I have some idea of what ERP means -- typically, it seems to mean paying
hundreds of thousands of dollars for a huge application and consultants
galore, who spend years "setting up" the application and often never get it
running. Actually, compared to some ERP implementations in shops where I
have consulted on Access, your problems seem minimal.

> Patch untill when?, where does it stop.

Perhaps you could clarify -- I have no idea what you mean by this. If you
are trying to justify never applying maintenance to either your operating
system or application software, it is just empty words.

> This problem was there 8-9 years ago, and
>  still there.

So, you are saying that you never had a successful implementation?  If not,
then why has the company used this terribly-flawed tool for so many years?
Surely someone there is sufficiently knowledgeable to compare this to
commercial ERP packages and make a valid judgement.

> Luck you, never have problem.

In fact, "luck" has very little to do with most solid, stable
implementations. Careful gathering of requirements, methodical and
workmanlike design, knowing the tools used, proper implementation, and
thorough testing have very much to do with most solid, stable
implementations.

I am still amazed that you would blame Access as being a poor tool, yet act
as if it were completely normal practice to ignore manufacturer's
maintenance on operating system and application software. You are, I am
certain, aware of the old adage about a workman blaming his tools.

Of course, given your positions, I most certainly disagree. If you cannot
see the merit in applying maintenance, and then carefully reviewing the
design and implementation of an application which has, from your
description, never worked well, then you must have "agreed to disagree" with
me.

And, if that is your position, it is unlikely that anyone here will be able
to assist you.

 Larry Linson
 Microsoft Access MVP
MC - 17 Mar 2006 14:47 GMT
Lary,
you still don't understand what ERP is capable of, what it does.
I thought myselft was Access guru 10 years ago, (like you)
when I designed a few forms,  a few functions, a few macros, and a few
report to impress a few people who did not know programming
I have been there done that. It sounds like you only know (you think you
know) access and nothing else,
and don't know what other technologies Microsoft has provided to bigger
industries to over come their production/manufacturing issues.
That is all I have to say.
MC

>  > Where did you get the "propaganda" idea?
>
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>   Larry Linson
>   Microsoft Access MVP
Larry Linson - 18 Mar 2006 02:49 GMT
> you still don't understand what ERP is capable
> of, what it does.

As I never explained either of those issues, you are in no position to infer
whether I do or do not understand what ERP is capable of and what it does. I
only indicated that it tends to be outrageously expensive, complex, and is
often never fully implemented -- and even proponents of it, unless they are
engaged in marketing commercial ERP packages, will agree to what I observed.

Want long-term contract work using Access? Find a client who cautions "This
Access app is just going to be used until we get the function implemented in
the corporate ERP system. We have submitted our requirements to the
Corporate Planning Committee." You can count on that Access application
being in use for a lot longer than the poor user department thinks it will.

> I thought myselft was Access guru 10 years ago,
> (like you) when I designed a few forms,  a few
> functions, a few macros, and a few report to
> impress a few people who did not know pro-
> gramming I have been there done that.

MC, I am not a "guru" of any kind. Access has only been my focus in the last
13 years of a 48-year career in the computer business, the
immediately-preceding 26 years of which were spent in the employ of a major
computer manufacturer, much of that in their field organization which was
contracted out to do software development work for their customers.

> It sounds like you only know (you think you
> know) access and nothing else, and don't know
> what other technologies Microsoft has provided
> to bigger industries to over come their
> production/manufacturing issues.

It sounds like you jump to conclusions. I have known for a long, long time
the value of maintenance of installed software and the value of seeking
advice from knowledgeable parties and following their advice.

And, frankly, unless the client had _compelling_ reasons to try to implement
a "homegrown" ERP system, I'd advise against it. Albeit those big commercial
packages are complex, expensive, and difficult to set up properly, there are
hundreds, perhaps thousands, of man-years of effort in them. Even "lesser"
ERP packages tend to be beyond the normal scope of development of an
organization for which the ERP package is not their product, but just an
"overhead item".

> That is all I have to say.

Praise be!

> MC

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
Tony Toews - 15 Mar 2006 03:41 GMT
>This annoying error message from MS Access "MSACCESS.exe has generated
>errors and will be closed by Windows. ... "

Responded to and discussing in another newsgroup.  Please crosspost to
a few appropriate  newsgroups in the newsgroups line of your newsgroup
software (separated by commas) rather than multiposting individual
postings to multiple newsgroups.  Assuming you even need to post to
more than one newsgroup in the first place.

We ask this is because different people are responding to your
postings in different newsgroups duplicating effort on our part.

Tony
Signature

Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
  Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
  Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm

 
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