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MS Access Forum / Multiuser / Networking / December 2004

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Access user capacity advice

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Michael Allen - 20 Dec 2004 09:41 GMT
We have been operating a company administration database in Access 97 for
approximately 5 years.  It is a FE/BE system with the front end on client
machines and the backend on our main file server.

At present, we have approximately 80 users with some users remote accessing
the database over Terminal Server via  VPN connection.  The system is still
functioning satisfactorily, however I am being asked about its long-term
viability bearing in mind future growth, upgrade costs to a later version of
Access etc.

It is suggested that the Access database be scrapped and a new application
built with a VB.NET front end and a MySQL back end.  Having looked at
VB.NET, I consider this task would be very daunting as the current database
has many hundreds of forms, reports and queries.  Even simple form
manipulation and creation of complex queries in VB.NET are difficult.  I
think a complete re-build would take a very long time.

Can anybody give me some advice on possible scenarios.

Some possible courses of action I have considered are:-

An Access front end with a MySQL backend via an ODBC connection.
Upgrading completely to Access XP.  However, the licensing costs would be
extremely high.  Possibly using Terminal Server would overcome the licensing
issue as only one licence would be required for the server.  Would TS
support over 100 users?

Does the latest version of Access support more users and is it any more
robust than Access 97?

Thanks,
Mike
Rick Brandt - 20 Dec 2004 13:15 GMT
> We have been operating a company administration database in Access 97 for
> approximately 5 years.  It is a FE/BE system with the front end on client
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> issue as only one licence would be required for the server.  Would TS support
> over 100 users?

The use of Terminal Server does NOT eliminate the need for EVERY user to have a
license to all software being run on the server unless said software's license
specifically allows for that (Access is not such software).  What you're saying
would be true if you installed the Access Runtime on the Terminal Server, but
not the regular product.

> Does the latest version of Access support more users and is it any more robust
> than Access 97?

No and no.

Moving to a server based back end and keeping Access is a good idea, but I would
question the choice of MySQL.  There are many other choices that would be better
including SQL Server which would be my preference.  For lower costs I would look
at Firebird.  Remember that MySQL is not free when used for a commercial
solution, but only for private usage.

If someone in-house already has .NET skills that you want to exploit then doing
*future* development in that might make sense.  You are correct though that
recreating an existing Access application with much complexity to it would be
slow and expensive.

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Michael Allen - 20 Dec 2004 15:43 GMT
Thanks Rick,

I would also prefer SQL Server but it is extremely expensive.  I shall
investigate Firebird.

Mike

>> We have been operating a company administration database in Access 97 for
>> approximately 5 years.  It is a FE/BE system with the front end on client
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> though that recreating an existing Access application with much complexity
> to it would be slow and expensive.
Albert D. Kallal - 31 Dec 2004 03:12 GMT
> Thanks Rick,
>
> I would also prefer SQL Server but it is extremely expensive.

The last 3 versions of office (2000, 2002, and 2003) have included a free
100% compatible sql server engine on the office cd disk. This is (was) a
100% compatible engine with sql server. It included nice features like
t-sql, and triggers, and stored procedures (features that MySql are still
wating to get).

Furhter, you can now download and use the free "express" version of sql
server, and it does not have the "throttle" that the free version had on the
ms-access office cd.

You can find the express version here:

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/sql/default.aspx

So, you been able to download and use a free database server engine from
Microsoft going all the way back to office 2000! (that is 3 full versions
ago!).

Further, the new express version will allow you to write code in your
favorite language...(vb.net, c++.net etc). Not having to learn a separate
programming language for the server side code sounds like a real boom to me.
(and, the price is right).

Signature

Albert D. Kallal   (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com
http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn

SirPoonga - 21 Dec 2004 14:44 GMT
Why do you question MySQL?  The newest version has eliminated a bunch
of the problems that have plagued MySQL in the past (like now
supporting UNION queries).
You still have to get a commercial license for it.
Larry  Linson - 22 Dec 2004 02:48 GMT
> We have been operating a company
> administration database in Access 97 for
> approximately 5 years.  It is a FE/BE
> system with the front end on client
> machines and the backend on our
> main file server.

> At present, we have approximately 80
> users with some users remote accessing
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> upgrade costs to a later version of
> Access etc.

Factors in how many users can be supported in multiuser include the
requirements, design, and implementation of the database application and the
hardware, software, and network environments. If all factors are near
perfect, we have reliable reports of over 100 concurrent users. Even if not
all are near perfect, we routinely see reports of 30 - 70 users. But, in
cases where we are rather sure that all are about as far from perfect as can
be, people have reported Access "falling over" with as few as four users.

I'd venture to guess that if someone went out of their way to do everything
wrong, it would be possible to create a database that wouldn't even support
one or two users. <GRIN> But, supporting 80 users, it is clear that you are
doing much RIGHT. Still, even if you continue to do everything right, you
can't count on much growth in user audience.

> It is suggested that the Access database be
> scrapped and a new application built with a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> are difficult.  I think a complete re-build
> would take a very long time.

There are many (more experienced than I with VB.NET) who believe that it is
still useful only for web applications. My own observation is that working
in VB.NET is more complex than working in classic VB, and even that required
far more time and efffort for database applications than using an Access
client in multiuser or client-server environments (typical quote from people
experienced with both is that VB would require 3- 5 times as much time and
effort; I don't know how much _more_ it would take in VB.NET, but believe it
would take more).

On the other hand, having a web application on your intranet would eliminate
the licensing issue, if, indeed, a web application would support the rich
client environment to which your users are accustomed. In fact, it is
entirely possible that the cost of the licenses would be significantly less
than the cost of redevelopment.

> An Access front end with a MySQL
> backend via an ODBC connection.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> for the server.  Would TS support over
> 100 users?

Rick has addressed these issues, but "the licensing issue" can be overcome
by licensing the Developer Edition of Office XP and distributing the runtime
support to the users (for Access 2003, the equivalent to the Developer
Edition is called Visual Studio Tools for Office 2003 System). Depending on
the Server you are running, you may also require a CAL for each Terminal
Server user.

If you are limited to free or low-cost server databases, I also would
suggest looking into others such as PostgreSQL. MySQL does have licensing
fees for commercial use, and has not been as well thought of as some others
in terms of its features and functions. On the other hand, many people are
using it, so they must be doing _something_ right.

Because you have a copy of the Access client on each users machine, with
just one user, the limitation on number of users would be determined by the
number of concurrent connections that you can have with the server machine
or database, and the capability of the server database.

I have worked with Access clients to server databases, the largest of which
supported just under 200 users (that particular one had an Informix
database). Others have reported supporting user audiences in the "low
hundreds" as well. My guess is that just was the largest number they had
occasion to have in the C/S environment. I'm sure that most of the clients
with whom I've dealt in recent years would use a web-based application if
they anticipated more users than a few hundred.

> Does the latest version of Access support
> more users and is it any more robust than
> Access 97?

No, but it is still supported by Microsoft. Both Access 97 and Access 2000
are now officially "out of support", though there is much "support"
available in the way of advice in newsgroups and downloads and Knowledge
Base articles.

  Larry Linson
  Microsoft Access MVP
 
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