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MS Access Forum / Forms Programming / May 2008Access (Office) 2003 - 2007
Hello all, I was thinking to upgrade to 2007. Arriving at the dealer I got quit a shock about the price, compared to the price I paid for 2003 it is quit steep. Now I do not look for fancy screens and was just wondering, is there an advantage or some new tricks to learn? Does Access (and the rest) still support the VBA language or does it go to the .NET business (which I am not familiar with jet)? If its an upgrade to go with the flow in technique I do want to upgrade if it's only a facial and user friendliness case I might wait a bit. Any suugestions from the Access programers and users point of view? Thx, Ludovic  Signature------------------------------- This e-nonsense has been sent using a Strawberry. ------------------------------- 1. Access 2007 still is programmed using VBA. 2. As far as is it worth upgrading, well this is a question of personal opinion. Personally, for the average user, I would say no! That said, Access does have one very nice feature for developers, thats is the fact that you can package your databases and deploy them to clients that do not own Access (for free). In my opinion, MS gave access a facelift but what is under the hood remain quite similar to previous versions. If you are used to developing on pre-2007 access, you will also be faced with a learning curve, as you will need to get used to the new GUI/ribbon.... Check out the following links as they cover this subject: http://www.allenbrowne.com/Access2007.html http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA100241851033.aspx At the end of the day I would ask you, why are you wanting to upgrade? What are you hoping to gain? Or what is troubling you with your current version? Based on that answer, we may be able to tell you whether or not Access 2007 will achieve the desired goal. But upgrading just to upgrade because MS came out with a new version, in my opinion, is no reason to upgrade at all. SignatureHope this helps, Daniel Pineault http://www.cardaconsultants.com/ For Access Tips and Examples: http://www.devhut.com/index.php Please rate this post using the vote buttons if it was helpful. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thx, > Ludovic Jan Baird is out of the country until September 20. Every effort will be made to respond to messages, but please be patient. I just purchased MS Office 2007 student version because I am taking courses in college for database design. I have Office 2003 at home and we develop with it at my job. You don't have to upgrade, you can run MS Office 2003 and MS Office 2007 side by side on the same computer. Get ready for some interface shock as things in Office are NOT where you are used to seeing them. Also, we are experimenting with Access 2007 at work and one of the things we noticed is that for some reason =Environ("Username") won't work in Access 2007. This bit of code allows us to pull the user off the network on form load so we can identify the login in our db's. We have this in all our DB's. We are finding other VBA hiccups as well. Excel 2007 has 1048576 rows now, so you can use Excel to import and export much more data to Access than you can in 2003. Just some food for thought. > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Thx, > Ludovic > for some reason =Environ("Username") won't work in Access 2007. This bit > of code allows us to pull the user off the network on form load so we can > identify the login in our db's. We have this in all our DB's. It works fine for me. I suspect some other issue is at fault here. However, the fact that it failing on you just proves what virtually ALL the seasoned developers here will tell you. Simply do NOT USE environ(). Not only can it fail, it subject to being changed by your users. Do some newsgroup searching here, you see how use of Environ() is discouraged. I have no idea why it not working for you, since for a2007, it works fine for me (but, don't recommend using environ anyway). You can get the current network logon name with: http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0008.htm And, the current computer name with: http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0009.htm I often log both the above in my applications, and users can't change the values retuned by above like they can with environment values.. SignatureAlbert D. Kallal (Access MVP) Edmonton, Alberta Canada pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com Jan Baird is out of the country until September 20. Every effort will be made to respond to messages, but please be patient. I upgraded for one reason only: the free runtime for deployment to non-Access users. I have found the ribbon to be lipstick on a pig, and I still use the old menus I developed under 2003 to run my apps. I still keep copies of 2003 on my PC and on a laptop, so I can make menu changes easily. Damon > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Thx, > Ludovic > Hello all, > > I was thinking to upgrade to 2007. Arriving at the dealer I got quit a > shock about the price, compared to the price I paid for 2003 it is quit > steep. Huh? The price for ms-access has not changed from 2003 to 2007. The purchase price for the FULL edition of ms-access is $229. Furthermore, the upgrade price from previous versions is only $109 That not even 2 hours of billing time that you pay to get someone to fix your photocopier. The $109 upgrade cost is not only reasonably, but really a steal. Considering that MS-access includes the developer tools and the runtime system for free, this is an absolute bargain. You used have to pay $500-$800 for the runtime system in a2003, and you get the whole shebang for about $100 now! MS access is not expensive..., but in fact just downright affordable... SignatureAlbert D. Kallal (Access MVP) Edmonton, Alberta Canada pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com Albert, Sorry this time I do not agree with you for my case and possibly more peoples cases. I did talk about the hole office suit (profecional which you need to get Access) the ultimate suit is even more. I am not a IT professional! I only want to keep updated so that in my function at a large engineering firm I do speak the same language as the IT department and I can understand them better, know what I can expect from them and more importend know what I can ask. As you know that IT projects can cost a lot of time and money without making it realy to there projected target. So in order to remain on speaking terms with and the bean counters and the IT deperment and get what I need for our 'money makers', it is best I do understand a bit more as a general user. And not only for Access but all office products aswell as products from other suppliers. That's only why I am interested to keep updated. Because at my company we are behind with software upgrading by about 4 years in average, I do buy the software personaly and do not refund this because I do not feel comferable with that (I dont want to belong to the type whom try to refund their hole live style from the Co.). Because later I will be one of the persons, in liasion with IT and others to decide when and what to upgrade, it is important I get familiar with a certain product. Once familiar, it easier to see advantages and dis advantages. Currently I am in Hong Kong and checked the prices here and thought that HK$4380 about Euro365 is quit steep (Office profesional). Surly in Europe where I come from it is even more. Now still for me personaly no problem but once your on the avaerage income with kinds, how do we expect people to purchase this for home use? Ok they can get Open.Office ect. but remember the importance of being familiar with a product. Besides it keeps the iligal software business happely alive, because as easy I could buy the craked version here in Mongkok or Shenzhen at HK$25 per CD no matter what is on it, so I should hope for Office Ultimate to be shipped on one CD. Understand me clear, I am not talking about the cost of the product for corporations (with multi user licences) who in turn make morey using the tools (software). Anyway it always is the point of few you take on a price / value. Regards, Ludovic >> Hello all, >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > MS access is not expensive..., but in fact just downright affordable... FYI, 4 years behind on upgrade is not that bad. The bigger the company the slower they are to keep up with upgrades for a number of reasons. My previous employer was still running servers on NT in 2006! I will agree that for the home user, the price of MS Office, and software in general, is very steep! So much so that that is why software piracy is so rampant! The problem being how would MS go about knowing which users use it for personal use vs. those who use it to make a living of it?! I had to drop a $1000 to buy my version of Office and this was for exactly for the same reasons as you. To learn for work, not to make a single penny. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and hope that the skills you aquire will pay for themselves in the long run. The more you can offer an employer the more you should be remunerated (in theory - I know the practical world can be quite different!!!! But that's a discussion for another day). Realistically, if your corporation has a multiple MS Office license, you should ask them to supply you with a copy. Even if they have licenses for 2000 or 2003 they can conver them to 2007 for you to learn on. Another option is to get them to purchase a copy for you. Typically they can get it a bit cheaper than an individual. SignatureHope this helps, Daniel Pineault http://www.cardaconsultants.com/ For Access Tips and Examples: http://www.devhut.com/index.php Please rate this post using the vote buttons if it was helpful. > Albert, > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > > > MS access is not expensive..., but in fact just downright affordable... > I will agree that for the home user, the price of MS Office, and software > in > general, is very steep! If I walk into 7-11, I will pay about $1.09 for ONE CAN of Coca-Cola. If I go to Wal-Mart and purchase that pop, I can get it as cheap as 0.33 cents a can. That is over 3 times (300%) difference in price. And, you can often get even cheaper than that. If you look at worldwide sales of Coca-Cola, people purchase about $28 billion worth of their products in a year. (I believe that is about the same amount as MS office is purchased in a year). I should point out that for the last 30 years I've tried every pop on the planet, and the only one that I consistently never gotten tired of, and actually still enjoy today is Coca-Cola. My point? the fact matter is that Coca-Cola product is affordable *and* good! That is why people willingly purchase billions of dollars of Coca-Cola in a year because they like it and they think it's a good deal. If I purchase a air flight from my city Edmonton to Toronto tomorrow, it going to cost me about $1400. If I can wait, can get that same flight for about $240 if I book ahead. like many things in life, the price you pay is going to depend on convenience and other factors. People and consumers also willingly purchase billions of dollars of software each year, because they think it's a good deal, is well worth the price, and like Coca-Cola for the most part it is a very affordable product. Last time I looked, I can get MS word on a new dell computer for $30. That is less then I will spend on coffee THIS MONTH! And, that purchase will last me 5 years. I think getting ms-word for $30 is a deal, real cheap, and is affordable . I remember companies paying $500 for JUST word perfect. Once again, just like Coca-Cola, I think for the money it's an absolute bargain. You have to ask yourself why do so many people willingly purchase billions of dollars of this stuff than a year? The only answer I can come up with is that it's well worth the price in consumes minds. The home edition of office in many places I seen at the business stores in town goes as cheap as $150. And on Amazon I see versions for $100. The same thing goes for when you purchase a new copy the operating system. When you purchase a dell you're only paying about $50 for the OS. That operating system purchase will last about 5 years. Once again, that not even $1 per month!!! When you consider that the purchase includes the knowledge base searching, all the automatic updates, and even things like virus scanners etc, it is just downright affordable again. So if you're wondering why people willingly purchased near $30 billion Coca-Cola in a year, or $40 billion of this office software in a year, it makes sense because it's rather affordable. If consumers want to go back and pen and paper, they could, but they willingly purchased this stuff because they find it really helps and improves their lives. Furthermore, as I pointed out, you DO NOT have to purchase the whole office suite JUST to get ms-access. If you not purchasing a new computer, and JUST need ms-access, then the upgrade price for ms-access is only $109. My point is like anything else in life, if you cannot wait and have to purchase something tomorrow, then you will pay a lot for that product. If you can change the timing of your purchase, and how you must purchase your product, you'll often save a pile of money, and that's just the way life works for just about everything, including purchasing pop like Coca-Cola or even windows software. I don't want to stand here and try to say that all the stuff is a bargain basement super cheap stuff. However, I do want to presents a differnt point of view here. In my humble opinion, for the most part a lot of this stuff is quite affordable. After all, these are tools that people purchased get their work done, and improve their livelihoods. If you want to be a carpenter, you better have good tools, even some of the latest power tools, and you'll simly do a better job. This is exactly how I feel about software in our industry that I work in. When you consider other consumer products, software is a relatively good deal, otherwise nobody would be buying this stuff.... SignatureAlbert D. Kallal (Access MVP) Edmonton, Alberta Canada pleaseNOOSpamKallal@msn.com Albert, I think I opened a can of worm hear. I certainly did not want to start an argument on the subject and you certainly have brought several good points to the discussion, but I still stand by my initial statement. For the home user, not making money from the software (ie not a business), $1000 is a lot of money. For instance, when I bought it, MS Office accounted for 7% of my yearly income?! You do the math and tell me that didn't hit my wallet. Hell Ms Office cost me 3x more than the PC it runs on! As I also said, somethime you have to bite the bullet if it is something that you believe will benefit you. As you said, if this is your job/business, then you need to invest in the proper tools! And as far as MS Access is concerned, most company's don't even understand how much it can help them! Lastly, like you also pointed out, the upgrade is much cheaper. So once you have a copy, upgrading doesn't hurt nearly as much. SignatureDaniel Pineault > > I will agree that for the home user, the price of MS Office, and software > > in [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > When you consider other consumer products, software is a relatively good > deal, otherwise nobody would be buying this stuff.... Jan Baird is out of the country until September 20. Every effort will be made to respond to messages, but please be patient. =?Utf-8?B?RGFuaWVsIFBpbmVhdWx0?= <DanielPineault@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in news:C40B667C-DD49-45EC-8C29-6B709E4A0B07@microsoft.com: > As I also said, somethime you have to bite the bullet if it is > something that you believe will benefit you. As you said, if this > is your job/business, then you need to invest in the proper tools! I never purchased Office XP. And I have not as yet purchased Office 2007. I think it's completely silly to upgrade unless the new version is compelling in terms of real problems you have encountered that the new version solves. SignatureDavid W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/ usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ Jan Baird is out of the country until September 20. Every effort will be made to respond to messages, but please be patient. I guess everything is in the eye of the beholder. To me a piece of software that cost me as much as my mortgage payment is indeed expensive. But then that's just me and I'm on the low end of the salary scale. I am not saying that it is not worth the investment, and that it is not a good software, but it is never the less expensive to mere mortals. I bought it because I percieved it as an investment in myself. It has permitted me to expand my skillset and make me an invaluable commodity at the office. So I would happily do it again. Just my 2 cents amongst others. QB > > I will agree that for the home user, the price of MS Office, and software > > in [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > When you consider other consumer products, software is a relatively good > deal, otherwise nobody would be buying this stuff.... Jan Baird is out of the country until September 20. Every effort will be made to respond to messages, but please be patient. Jan Baird is out of the country until September 20. Every effort will be made to respond to messages, but please be patient. Yes Ludovic, There are some very good reasons to upgrade in my opinion. The first one is the multi-value field. It makes using Many-to-Many relationships a no brainer for users with no database design skills. Database experts will tell you that multi-value fields go counter to everything that they believe is good design and building M-to-M relationships is easy for them. But if a user is new to databases they can go directly to M-to-M relationships without understanding them. I would agree that that is bad for the old guard but it is good for new users. Another good thing about Access 2007 is being able to export your data to PDF and XPS formats. Yes an experienced user can create VBA code to export data to PDF format but do you want to add that code to every database in your enterprise? Probably no. Another Access 2007 capability is importing/exporting SharePoint lists with one click. Not using SharePoint yet? Your company will be soon. Likewise if your project team is using Groove, Access 2007 makes sense for using project databases in team environments. Not using Groove yet? Then you are missing out on a sweet collaborative tool. (These last two statements relate to where Microsoft is going with Access 2007 and the Office Suite, towards a collaborative, enterprise applications environment. Single users are on the way out, IMHO, which is good because two heads is always better than one. Even in my three-person office, I want, no demand, input from others in the office.) The ribbon will take some time getting used to but you should master it in a few days of concentrated use. If you can't find a tool, look under the Access 2007 Office button, many of the really handy tools are hidden there for some reason known only to folks in Redmond. I have also come to like the Navigation Pane. When used with a good object naming convention, it makes finding the right form, query, table, or report easy. Access 2007 also has a new view mode called the Layout View. I haven't used it yet but it is touted as being a quick way to change your forms. Check it out. But there are some frustrating things in Access 2007. Yes, it can use VBA code but the native automation environment is macros. That is good for enterprises needing to provide better security but a pain if you need to do things quickly the old way using wizard-generated code. (I have heard that there is less security in Access 2007 but I am not an Access security expert.) (One really annoying thing for me over the past few days has been copying command buttons with embedded code from one form another. I am not sure if this was possible with Access 2003 or not but I had to the copy buttons and code separately. With more than 140 forms that needed this operation, it was a royal pain.) Upgrade: yes. But keep Access 2003 around for a few weeks until you are ready to go cold turkey. Or go cold turkey and learn Access 2007 under fire. Now that there are a few good Access 2007 books on the market you have 'friends' on your side. My 2 cents +. LDN > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thx, > Ludovic Jan Baird is out of the country until September 20. Every effort will be made to respond to messages, but please be patient. Allen Browne has an excellent article on v2007 on his site showing what's new, what's gone and what's bad that's worth a read if you're thinking about upgrading, which is what it sounds like you need to know: http://allenbrowne.com/Access2007.html#Bugs The most telling comment I've read on the latest version, and I'm sorry to say I can't remember who said it, was that it has a bigger learning curve for an experienced Access developer than it does for someone learning Access for the first time. BTW, being four years behind is probably a good lag for updating, considering how buggy new releases from Microsoft usually are and how long it takes them to exterminate the bugs! SignatureThere's ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat! Answers/posts based on Access 2000/2003 >The first one is the multi-value field. It makes using Many-to-Many >relationships a no brainer for users with no database design skills. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >M-to-M relationships without understanding them. I would agree that that is >bad for the old guard but it is good for new users. Think "billable hours" for when we have to upgrade the data for the users. <smile> Tony SignatureTony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can read the entire thread of messages. Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/ Jan Baird is out of the country until September 20. Every effort will be made to respond to messages, but please be patient. |
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