gymphil,
this is expected behavior for a form and subform that model a many to one
relationship.
When a new record is created on the main form, there can't be any records on
the subform.
You don't expect to have any child records for a parent record that hasn't
been created or is only just in the process of being created.

So maybe I'm not understanding your question. Would you care to explain it
again.

Jeanette Cunningham -- Melbourne Victoria Australia